Talking with George Chen

George Chen, courtesy of Zum

To say that George Chen is multi-talented is almost dimunitive in the light of the man’s day to day work. The creator and creative force behind the Bay Area-based indie music zine and label, Zum, George is also a guitarist, comedian and an M.C. in the purest sense of the “master of ceremonies” designation. On April 20th, George is hosting a talk/variety show at the Artists Television Access in the Mission, which will feature comedy, talk and music performances with publisher V. Vale, comedian Chris Thayer, cartoonist Jason Shiga, a performance by Tastyville and music by Steve Santa Maria and Brian Tester of Spaceburn.

George and I recently had the chance to talk art, labels, new music releases on Zum and the ins and outs of being a personal assistant to Sir Jello Biafra at Alternative Tentacles.

Sjimon Gompers: You just finished working with Alternative Tentacles, how was that?

George Chen: It was an interesting experience for sure. Like many people growing up in ’80s, Biafra and DK and AT were like dispatches from an underground that required some decoding. Punk rock was a bit of a mystery but those were my gateways into it, so there’s a lot of sentimental attachment. At the same time I found myself doing a mix of things that were a combo of publicity and being a personal assistant to Biafra. It seems like a better job for someone who’s not also trying to do their own creative things and can dedicate themselves wholly to that aesthetic, and I was starting to tour so much to the point where I felt like I needed to be my own personal assistant, cause no one else was going to do it for me.

SG: Tell me a bit about your recent transition to full time artist.

GC: I really only feel like I’m on day 2 of that. I got back from a tour and am finding the lack of structure pretty difficult. I can get easily distracted, and I have to work on this High Castle record, do my taxes, look into health insurance stuff, and there’s a bunch of personal stuff I’ve been going through that makes it all seem somewhat insignificant.
Part of my process is to take things I’ve been doing essentially as volunteer/charity work the past few years and figure out what it’s worth if someone wants me to do something, what is a reasonable rate to charge someone? I’ll still do stuff for free for homies, but the homie discount has been abused for a while. I also have been reading about being a “people pleaser” and am trying to stop the codependency cycle.

Also I just went out and did laundry in the middle of the day and came back to finish writing this. Isn’t that awesome? I also am getting way more sunlight than I used to. The AT bat cave had no office windows.

George Chen at the AT batcave, courtesy of George's flickr

SG: As a man who wears many proverbial “hats,” how do you select which medium/project takes precedent at which moment during your busy day?

GC: I wish I had proverbial hats, they’re kind of like fortune cookie hats with nuggets of wisdom on the inside ring. I’m trying to put things in iCalendar and make lists and just budget myself to cook at home. I might try and pitch an article or make a flyer and I’m also still looking at full time or part time jobs and I’ll do random consulting work or design work if people ask. It’s also hard writing music for KIT since the rest of them live in LA, so I’m trying to figure out a better home recording set up as we have some songs to work on.

I also do a lot of mailorder via discogs (http://www.discogs.com/sell/list?seller=geochen) and the Zum mailorder site (http://zum.bigcartel.com) so it all leads to days where I forget to eat till 2 pm, which is what it was like when I was working full time.

SG: What advice do you have for fans that want to start their own zine or label?

GC: Well print zines have become a bit of a novelty item, but there’s always room for those to exist. I might suggest starting with a blog and then refining or condensing some of your blog content for a print zine. As far as running a label, as long as you can start it off as a hobby where you’re not gonna lose your shirt if it tanks, get into it, you can put out a 7″ for about $600 or less depending on how many copies you want to make. If it’s for your own band, just do it. If you’re a fan putting something out for someone else, just make sure they’re going to actually play shows or tour, that’s the most important thing today for a band to do.

SG: How does one go about starting their own media micro empire in this day and age?

GC: I am not sure as I haven’t had to start from scratch. It seems like putting out CDs doesn’t make much sense right now, in my experience the past few years CD sales are really awful. I just did a triple live cassette with AIDS Wolf and that’s been selling decently, but I only made 100. Press small quantities and make high quality packaging, that’s the main thing to focus on now, if people want a physical object they prefer it be nice, if they just want to rip it for free they’ll find a way to get it that way.

George Chen, photo by Maya Sugarman

SG: How can indie startups and labels stay relevant amid the agregation saturation of media bloggos where everyone is some kind of journo or wannabe art/music critic?

GC: Well the blogs are basically trying to do some of what a label used to do right? Except for the part where they pay the artists. They want to be first and discover something and get credit for posting the video or having some exclusive content. I think there’s a difference between criticism and just throwing up a link or a regurgitated press release on your blog, but I don’t know that most people care about that difference anymore. I’m guilty of it also on my blog, it’ a bit of the tumblr thing that pushes images and embedded videos over in depth writing. But if your goal as a consumer is just to hear something and decide whether you would go see it or pay for it, yeah, this system works better, who has time to read analysis? I don’t mean to sound grandpa about it, it’s just the way things are now. There’s not much use in fighting it, there’s room enough for everyone to get what they want, whether that’s some kind of analysis or free mp3s.

Art and film criticism still need a lot more bottlenecks and gatekeepers in terms of criticism, just as far as time investment and needing some historical background. I do think context is important in music, but it’s pretty quick to just hear a snippet and decide in that 30 seconds if this is for you or not. It doesn’t help probably that the last few albums I put out, I can think of Mincemeat Or Tenspeed and Core of the Coalman especially, lend themselves to slow builds and long attention spans. Specifically the Core of the Coalman record, you kind of have to listen to the entire thing to get where it’s going, it’s not like there’s a “single” on that record.

SG: How did you and your sister create Zum back in ’98?

GC: It was existing as a magazine a while before we put out compilations. The first compilation was actually in 1997, but it came with the magazine. So ’98 was sort of an arbitrary year we decided to mark as the start of the label as we put out a compilation called Zum Audio Vol 2 that was sold separate from the magazine. It’s a pretty interesting and I think varied slice of the indie rock landscape at the time. In hindsight, I didn’t think we were particularly indie rock, but a lot on that comp feels dated, even though I think the songs are good. But it was our philosophy at the time to just ask bands we liked to do something, and at that point Yvonne and I both went out to lots of shows at Bottom of the Hill and other smaller spots around town and fancied ourselves talent spotters of a sort. We also had veto power over certain tracks as space was limited to 74 minutes. And I also got the idea that I should reissue the Nuzzle vinyl on CD in 1998, but that took two years to actually accomplish. I should also say at the time Yvonne had more disposable income so she really got the business aspect of it off the ground, I was more the guy who would pester bands.

SG: What do you feel you could do in 1998 that you can’t in 2011?

GC: We had gotten a few reviews and a lot of radio play in 1998 for that compilation. I don’t know how much college radio really pushes a band forward now, I know it can’t hurt but it’s never equated to sales for us. We were lucky that we got on radars of the zines that were big at the time, partly from having done a zine ourselves so long, but it was also kind of a big deal to put out a CD then, and it quickly became not such a big deal as the process got demystified for everyone coming to the DIY table. We also didn’t really know how to run a label then, it was just cool to magically create these objects. We learned about labels as we went, so we were sort of clustered in with these senior labels as part of our distribution, so that included GSL, 31G, Load, Vermin Scum, stuff we didn’t really fit in with aesthetically at the time but learned to figure out. Troubleman was pretty huge at the time as well. Distribution options changed radically in the past ten years and that’s largely in part to digital.

SG: What can be done in 2011 that you couldn’t do in 1998?

GC: I’m working to get a lot of the back catalog into digital distribution, iTunes, emusic, etc. I’ve yet to do a digital only release. but it’s an option to explore. People still don’t think of those as “real” releases in terms of press though. I like how Dischord basically put up old Fugazi live sets in their own digital store, that makes sense but we don’t have a Fugazi on our label.
The instant feedback is nice and there’s much less reliance on print advertising.

SG: That new AIDS Wolf tape you’re putting out sounds rad, what other new releases should we be excited about?

GC: The new High Castle album, technically their first album, is called “Spirit Of The West” and should be out in June. Really amped on what they’re doing now. We are also getting a three hour special on the label on KFJC 89.7 FM on May 7th so that’s exciting as I grew up listening to that station and it’s the best freeform station out here. (http://kfjc.org/mayhem/index.php?mayhem_year=2011#Mayhem_10)

I have been talking to Rob Barber about putting something out for Urxed, which is has been discussed for at least a year. Not sure what else is on the horizon, maybe a comedy album?
I also have an irregularly updated podcast where I play upcoming and older Zum tracks as well as just whatever music I’m feeling at the moment. http://georgezum.podomatic.com/

SG: Do you prefer playing guitar in K.I.T. to running Zum?

GC: Well I enjoy the collaborative process of songwriting in KIT, it’s very different than how I do things with Zum as a sole proprietor. I might get an intern for Zum or something. I guess the equivalent thing would be getting a guitar tech for KIT. They work different area of my brain and hands, so it’s hard to compare really. Being in a band gets more immediate feedback and is a lot more interactive than running a label. I don’t know that the average music fan gets deeply nerded out on labels, but everyone including my mom kind of gets what playing guitar in a rock band is like. Though at the lest glamorous end of the spectrum.

SG: Looking forward to your gig at the ATA with V. Vale, Chris Thayer, Jason Shiga, Tastyville and Spaceburn on 4.20. Can we expect some of your stand-up between sets?

GC: It’s formatted more like me doing a bit of an intro monologue, which is more storytelling than traditional standup – I hope there are still laughs – and then Vale and Shiga will be more like interviews/show and tell. Tastyville is sort of absurdist mixed format music/dance/comedy, and Thayer is a standup. I hope to be having engaging, funny conversations with all of them, and Spaceburn is a music set made by my bandmate Steve Santa Maria and Brain Tester playing their homegrown techno.
There are clips from the last (first) talk show up here to give you some idea…

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